The leaders of two of Germany’s rising political parties, the Alternative for Germany (AfD) and the Sahra Wagenknecht Alliance (BSW), faced each other live for the first time.
AfD co-leader Alice Weidel and BSW leader Sahra Wagenknecht appeared on the WELT program “Duel” for a 65-minute debate. They discussed various topics, from the war in Ukraine to attitudes toward Israel, the migration crisis, and relations with neo-Nazis.
Wagenknecht reacted sharply to Weidel’s characterization of the BSW as “useful idiots of the old parties” and “shovel holders” for the establishment. “I find that despicable and offensive,” she replied.
Weidel’s ‘establishment’ attack on Wagenknecht
“You, as people will soon realize, won’t bring real change,” Weidel countered, referring to ongoing coalition talks in the eastern states.
While the AfD leader acknowledged Wagenknecht’s years of political experience and the possibility of dialogue “across party lines,” she added that Wagenknecht was a “dove of the old parties” and would not form a coalition with the AfD but rather with other parties.
Wagenknecht also drew a clear distinction between herself and the AfD’s leader in Thuringia, Björn Höcke, who is known for leading the ethno-nationalist (völkisch) faction of the AfD, which includes neo-Nazi elements.
BSW leader criticizes Björn Höcke and neo-Nazism
“I find it very frightening,” Wagenknecht said, quoting from Höcke’s books, The Politics of Benign Cruelty, The Politics of Large-Scale Repatriation, and Progressive Africanisation. She emphasized that while controlling “uncontrolled immigration” is also a BSW policy, the idea of deporting immigrants who have lived in Germany for decades and integrated into society is “horrible.”
When asked to rate Weidel’s political stance “on a scale of one to ten,” Wagenknecht replied “maybe a six.” She noted that Weidel represented “conservative positions” with a “strong market orientation,” calling her the “attractive face” of a party largely dominated by the “Höcke wing.”
Summing up her view of Weidel, Wagenknecht said, “You can’t form a coalition with people who are mired in neo-Nazi swamps.”
Wagenknecht: ‘I am not a communist’
In response, Weidel accused Wagenknecht of once being a member of the “communist platform glorifying Stalinism” within her former party, Die Linke. Weidel added that this platform supports the economic models of Cuba and Venezuela.
While Wagenknecht advocated for providing loans for infrastructure investment, Weidel argued for enforcing Germany’s constitutional “debt brake,” calling instead for austerity measures in social spending and insisting that benefits should no longer be paid to foreigners.
The moderator attributed these differences to their “different socializations,” pointing out that Wagenknecht grew up in East Germany and Weidel in East Westphalia. Wagenknecht firmly responded, “Don’t call me that. I’m not a communist.”
Similarities and differences on migration
On the topic of “reverse migration,” Weidel clarified that it referred to “enforcing the laws of the country,” and distanced herself from AfD leaders advocating the deportation of “millions.” She spoke instead about increasing the pressure for assimilation and emphasized that asylum is a “temporary stay,” not a pathway to permanent immigration.
Weidel argued that those who obtained German citizenship “fraudulently” should lose it, and she called for “qualified immigration according to strict criteria,” similar to the Canadian system. However, some AfD leaders have proposed that even those with German passports could be forced to leave if deemed insufficiently integrated.
Weidel also defended Höcke, mentioning that he had previously debated the CDU’s Thuringia candidate, Mario Voigt, and argued that “reverse migration” could also mean encouraging Germans abroad to return home.
Consensus on Russian energy
On the Ukraine-Russia war, Wagenknecht defended Germany’s use of Russian gas, calling the sanctions against Russia an “own goal” and advocating for a “negotiated peace.” Weidel agreed, noting that these had been long-standing AfD positions.
Wagenknecht targets AfD’s stance on Israel
On foreign policy, however, the two leaders diverged over Israel. Wagenknecht criticized the AfD for unilaterally siding with the Israeli government in the Middle East conflict, describing Gaza as an “open-air prison” and accusing the Israeli army of war crimes. “You cannot fight terror with terror,” she said, and argued that a “just peace” must involve a two-state solution.
Weidel, on the other hand, defended Israel’s “right to self-defense” and highlighted “Muslim anti-Semitism,” insisting that the AfD would not tolerate “Krawallbrüder” (hooligans) in Germany. She also argued against arms sales to Israel, warning that such sales would deplete Germany’s own military reserves.
Wagenknecht pointed out that the BSW had previously tabled a motion to stop arms sales to Israel, which the AfD did not support.
Trump: Weidel’s US presidential candidate
During the debate, the two politicians were also asked about the upcoming US elections. Weidel expressed her clear preference for Donald Trump, saying, “Sometimes he can be very sharp in his statements, but he has made good policies.” She praised Trump’s economic approach in particular.
Wagenknecht, however, said she was relieved not to be voting in the US election. “Trump is crazy, and Harris will continue her war policies,” she said, expressing dissatisfaction with both candidates.
