In the aftermath of the European Parliament (EP) elections, analyses of the rising right-wing on the continent play a major role in commentary on the future of the EU. In France, Marine Le Pen’s National Union (RN) came first, while in Germany, the Alternative for Germany (AfD) overtook the Social Democrats to become the second party. The anti-establishment Saharan Wagenknecht Alliance (BSW) also made a significant debut in the first elections, winning around 6% of the vote.
Former Left Party MP and political scientist Alexander S. Neu believes that although the composition of the EP has not changed significantly, the AfD and the BSW have come to the fore and will continue to do so, especially in the context of migration, social security and relations with China and Russia.
Neu argues that the “unipolar” era in the international system is over and in this context, the “right-left” distinction can hardly be mentioned, however, in domestic politics, especially in economic policies, the BSW is on the left and the AfD on the right, and in this context, these distinctions are still valid. It is also noteworthy that the AfD, which is known in our country only for its stance against immigration, acts as a typical neoliberal party as an economic platform. Moreover, it is also important to question the extent to which it is possible to switch voters between the AfD and the BSW.
Let me start with the echoes of the European elections in the continent. Lots of people seem to worry about the rise of the so-called “far-right” across Europe after the elections. What would you say about this phenomenon? After all, it seems that the European Parliament’s “centre” remains intact.
Yes and no. Yes, the majority is still with the conservative party and social democrats and liberals, of course. But the result of the elections shows one thing. Europe goes to the right side more than ever before.
And we have two different dimensions. We have the political sphere and the media sphere, fighting against AfD, fighting against the right wing political parties like Le Pen, Meloni, on one side. But the other side is we have a population, for example, in Germany, but not only in Germany and all over Europe, who is more and more worried about migration and would try to give an answer to the established political parties saying, no, we don’t want to have more migrations. We have a lot of criminal acts in Germany, in France and so on. And we need more control over Germany, over France, not to have so many migrations.
And their political is AfD, for example, or Marie le Pen in France, for example. We had a long and a lot of anti AfD campaign driven by the media and by the government and so called NGOs in the last couple of months. But the result is still good for IfD.
But what do you think about Europe’s future, for example, the Ukrainian war, the Green Deal, or about migration? Could the new European parliament change its course about those policies?
The majority is still in the hands of the green party, conservative party and liberals. So there will be no big change. Nevertheless, the air is becoming thin for these political parties regarding Ukraine. More and more people see that the war between Ukraine and Russia, and the intervention of the west, for example, the European Union and Germany and America is not good for the people in Germany and Europe. More and more people don’t want to be involved in this war. And even some people have some understanding of the Russian position. In Germany, particularly in eastern Germany, we can see this phenomenon.
Green Deal. Yes and no. The Green party and other parties made a very hard and aggressive campaign for the new Green Deal. And many people are fed up with this because they lose more and more money because of this. And the Green party is not doing a good job. So the new green deal is indeed in danger because of this aggressive way some political party, German government are acting.
And migration, the last question. Yes, in Germany, but not only in Germany, in Scandinavia, in France, more and more people are very angry about this massive migration we have, in particular in 2015. You probably remember when people from Syria, Iraq, even Kosovo migrated between February and Autumn 2015, and more than 1 million came to Germany. And Councillor Merkel said at that time, we will achieve this, we will make it, but it is not done.
We have a lot of problems. Competition between people who are looking for work, who want to have more salary or less salary, competition with migrant people, competition in the question of flats and houses and so on. So we have a very tense atmosphere in Germany, and not only in Germany, in Austria, in France, in Italy. The tension is increasing because of this. As the German government says, oh, it’s everything okay, but nothing is okay.
But also the SPD government tries to harden their stance against migration…
Verbally yes, but operationally no. Social democrats and the Green party, they are very open to migration. And this is a real problem.
People see this and they don’t believe social democrats anymore. This is one reason why the Social Democrats had lost almost 2% and the green party almost 9% the last election. Because nobody believes them anymore.
One of the most remarkable things about elections is the rise of AfD in Germany. I saw an article on Die Welt that claims AfD is the new Arbeiterpartei in Germany. Also, there are some statistics about the german blue collar workers who voted for AfD. How do you evaluate the rise of AfD? Is German politics now headed towards a far right takeoff? Or what platform does AfD represent? Because we know that some other right-wing parties, for example, the French National Rally, distanced itself from it.
Thereafter we observed, as I said before, we have seen a huge campaign against AfD done by the German government, NGOs and media. But nevertheless, AfD is still strong and got even a better result in this election five years before, and in particular in eastern Germany. People don’t believe these established political parties anymore. They believe more in AfD.
And I look at some surveys. Criminality. Too many migrants came to Germany. These are the questions people are engaged with. And AfD is very, very smart to use exactly this question and to try to give answers.
For me, it’s interesting because AfD is a neoliberal party, like social democrats, like the Green party or the conservative party.
Nevertheless, the working class is voting even more for AfD than, for example, Sahra Wagenknecht Alliance. At the moment, at least, so many people, people of the working class, don’t even understand the economic and social questions and topics of AfD. The main topics they see are migration, migration, migration. And AfD is solving this with the agendas they have.
So in the end, the working class is not voting in their own interest. Because AfD is a neoliberal party. It’s a party for rich people. It’s a party for people who have a high academic level, who have money and so on and so on. It’s not a real working party, according to their manifesto.
It’s very important because lots of people also in Turkey do not know about the AFD’s economic or political stance. Also in Turkey we have a migration question, as you know, and some anti migration parties are now establishing in Turkey. But still, as you say, they have liberal economic platform. And it’s interesting here that you mention the AfD’s neoliberal economic program.
Yes, it is. Alice Weidel is a typical neoliberal lady. And she comes from the western Germany.
You have to see that AfD is a little bit split in two parts. Eastern Germany Afd and western part Afd. Western Germany is more neoliberal. Like Alice Weidel. Eastern Germany is indeed more social oriented. Tine Chrupalla, the co-chairman, is more socially oriented. But nevertheless, the manifesto, the program of this party is typical neoliberal.
And also in eastern Germany, the CDU, the establishment party of Germany, the Christian Democrats are now the second party in the eastern part of Germany. And they came first in the whole of Germany. So how do you evaluate the CDU’s rise? Because the party, the Christian Democrats, are also pro-Ukraine. They want to send arms to Kiev and they want to continue the war against Russia. And also they cut the Merkel era policy regarding Russia and cheap Russian energy. Why did people choose CDU when it is also a war party?
This is probably the most interesting question you can raise. I have never understood the German political behavior of the population regarding voting for this or another political party.
CDU is doing exactly the same thing that social democrats are doing regarding phones regarding Ukraine and so on. Regarding America, the transatlantic position, CDU is exactly doing the same like the Greens, like the liberal party. And people say, okay, traffic light, we are fed up, we vote for CDU. This shows to me people are not really interested in reading and understanding politics. Otherwise they would vote for another party. Let’s say for BSW, for the animal protection party, for AfD, whatever. We have a lot of political parties. More than 40 parties in Germany can vote for.
This is the traffic light coalition. Doesn’t work. CDU will be the next government. After two years, oh, I will not support CDU. So I will vote for the Social Democrats again. So hip hop between one party to another party, from another party to the first party, but not a real alternative.
And this shows to me that people are not really interested in political programs. They don’t read, they don’t understand them. They just say, oh, there’s a party from last time, it’s better now to do the same. And this is what I don’t understand, really. This is for democracy. It’s a really bad position to work like this.
So do you think, will there be a snap election in Germany?
No, I don’t think so. It’s now less than two years until the next election, in September 2025. And what I have understood during my time in parliament, people like to be in parliament, like to be in their position to earn money, to get attention from the media and so on. No, they will stay together as the traffic light coalition, even if they don’t achieve anything anymore. They will stay until the last day. This is a human behavior, at least in Germany. I don’t think that the traffic light coalition will split up, and will finish before the end of term. It won’t happen.
So the state elections in September; Thüringen, Saxony and Brandenburg…
These are really important indications, like the European Parliament election. Very important indications for what would be the result most probably in 2025 on German level.
Let’s talk about new parties. Sahra Wagenknecht Alliance, BSW. After the elections, Wagenknecht claimed that the new party has now proved itself and the new aim of BSW is to be represented in state governments in September state elections. How do you see the future of this party? Could it be an alternative for AfD, especially in eastern Germany?
No, not so much. The most voters who came to BSW are from the CDU and the social democrats. 1 million voters came from both parties and just 140,000 voters came from AfD. So to say that BSW will take the voters for AfD is not verified, at least not verified regarding this election.
Last weekend the people who voted for AfD, for example, 46% said migration was their first topic. And just 17% was saving peace. Regarding BSW, things exactly turn around. Saving peace was 37%. And migration, just 25%. So there is no real competition. They have different understandings.
So the two parties now are establishing two separate voter bases.
Yes. This is my impression after this election. And for example, social security, welfare and so on, BSW voters 22%, AfD voters just 15%.
BSW is indeed a left party. And this is the debt of the original Left Party. I was a member until November last year when I left this party. A lot of people left the Left Party, and the Left Party is more or less dead. And BSW is replacing this Left Party more and more.
So do you think BSW can be represented in some state governments?
After the elections in September, we have a similar situation like the AfD. AfD is in eastern Germany much stronger than the western Germany. And BSW is stronger in eastern Germany than in western Germany. So in my opinion, these three elections taking place in September in Thuringen, in Sxony, in Brandenburg, will be a big victory for BSW and AfD.
And it seems that the Die Linke is now finished.
It’s finished regarding the question of the political party, Die Linke. But the idea of the left is not finished. It will survive in the name of BSW.
But you know, when I read BSW leaders’ statements, it seems that they are no longer dividing the political spectrum as left and right. Also, Sahra Wagenknecht said, after the elections, the people are not interested in the left and right.
I think we need to differentiate the internal questions like crime, like economic questions and social questions. There is still between left and right categories to think about.
But the international questions regarding Russia, Ukraine, China, United States-transatlantic relationship, there is no, indeed no category left and right anymore. We have left parties, or more or less left parties and conservative parties were completely transatlantic, completely subordinate to the United States, completely serving the United States, not using their own national interest.
And we have other parties, like BSW or AfD, completely different in internal questions. But they are the same regarding some international questions. BSW, for example, wants to have peace and a good relationship with Russia and China. So we have a new epoch. The unipolar world order is over. AfD sees a similar future. So this is an international question and there’s no left or right categories anymore. But internal questions, there are still [left and right].
Then we could say that for incoming elections, like state elections or Bundestag elections, BSW is going to pursue peace politics and also social security policy in domestic politics. And AfD is more and more going towards migration politics.
Yes. But migration is even a topic for BSW, not as strong as AfD. But BSW also says we have to control the migration to Germany and to Europe. It’s too much. We need to control.
