With Lula political configuration is going to change

By Micaela Ovelar, Brazil

The Tricontinental Institute for Social Research was born out of a need to analyze, debate and disseminate the processes that are being generated by social movements and popular organizations in different parts of the world. It has therefore focused on promoting critical thinking and stimulating debates and research with an emancipatory perspective. Currently, it has institutes in Argentina, Brazil, India and South Africa, but its network of relationships extends throughout the Global South.

During our stay in Sao Paulo, Brazil, we had the opportunity to interview with Vijay Prashad (India), Director of the Tricontinental Institute for Social Research. Here we share some of his insights about Brazil and the world.

Political Scientist and journalist Micaela Ovelar with Vijay Prashad in Brasil.

‘Battle of the emotions’

• What is your appreciation of the political context in Brazil?

In many middle and high income countries there is a big problem because the political culture in these societies, like Brazil or India, is defined by what is known as “the middle class”. In other words, -essentially- the middle class defines what politics is for these countries, and, being so, the Brazilian and Indian middle class leads us to focus on certain rights, leaving aside other rights. Then, political conditions arise that confuse reality. For example, Bolsonaro has done work on that segment or sector of Brazilian society and has had an impact, a result. Bolsonaro, just like Primer Minister of India Modi does, directly lie in the press and social networks to Brazilian society and the world. And it seems that he can do it with total impunity.

A few weeks ago, as he often does, Bolsonaro addressed an audience of 50% of viewers in the national media, and continued to lie about the state of health, education, and the economy in Brazil. And when a journalist criticized him, he chose to attack this person. In other words, no one can ask him to take responsibility for the lies he spreads, and these lies have a real impact on the feelings of a substantial part of the Brazilian population. Here in Brazil, as in other parts of the world, a “battle of the emotions” is taking place, is being waged.

I must say that, in a democracy dominated by the capitalist system, it is easier to build a campaign based on hate than on love. And it’s not just about “FakeNews”, but the right can say things like “we hate women”, “we hate minorities”, “we hate immigrants”, “we hate gays” , “we hate”… They can build a Constitution around hate, around rage. But, we, the people of the left, cannot say we hate this person, or that one. We say we want to build a fairer society, we want to build a better health system, and it is much more difficult to build a Constitution around love.

• So, do you think that Bolsonaro was a risk for Brazilian democracy?

My personal feeling is that, in these middle-income countries, like Brazil, what you basically see is the ability of the right to move their agendas through State institutions, so Bolsonaro doesn’t really bring the whole democratic system down. They use democracy to advance their right-wing agendas. In that sense, what is threatened is not necessarily the democratic institutions, but the very spirit of democracy. This is the risk.

Also, it is worth asking: is there really a true democracy in these countries, such as Brazil and India? There are so many people who are not enthusiastic about participating in the elections. So what kind of democracy is that in the first place?

These new neo-fascist expressions, like Bolsonarism, are not interested in ending the formal institutions of democracy, they are not interested in staging a coup, but rather in winning elections to continue with their agendas from the State. So, again, what kind of democracy is this? That is, the neo-fascist movements have been able to take power through elections, so why are they going to stage a coup?

• Yes, that reminds me that India is considered the largest democracy in the world, and the same has been said of Brazil, in Latin America.

And it’s true, India is the largest formal democracy in the world, but is India more democratic than China? When China has its own decision-making processes at the local, internal, grassroots levels… all of which mobilize huge numbers of people across the country. So, India and Brazil are the largest formal democracies within a capitalist system, because there are also elections in Cuba, in China, in Venezuela, but they are not aligned with the prevailing system. Venezuela, in fact, is not a complete socialist project, Venezuela has a socialist government, but has inherited capitalist institutions that still exist today. Venezuela is a project on the way to socialism.

‘Lula has a real social commitment’

• Returning to Brazil, what is your opinion of Lula, as a political leader?

Lula is an extraordinary person, an extraordinary politician. Lula was running a phenomenal campaign. He is a man of incomparable energy. Lula is unique. I don’t compare him to any other leader. A question that I find more valid would be: Is Lula really committed to ending the most basic problems of the Brazilian society? Hunger, poverty, illiteracy, and so on.

I have been in Brazil, both in his first and second presidential elections, and I participated in his marches, meetings, and I have also had the opportunity to exchange a few words with him. Lula is an exceptional person, extraordinarily charismatic. In this campaign, he has made it clear that social justice issues will be at the top of his presidential agenda. So, answering the question of whether Lula has a real social commitment… For me, yes it does… And that for me is enough.

Regional integration and internationalism

• What is the importance of Lula’s re-election for the region and the world?

Brazil is one of the most important countries in all of Latin America and the Caribbean, from Canada to Chile, and Lula has stressed that he wants Brazil to play an important role in the world: in the Latin American and Caribbean integration processes, and in the revitalization of the BRICS. Brazil with Lula as president will play a leadership role not only because of its size, but because of the kind of political tradition that a person like Lula can bring to the international arena, we are talking about internationalism, South-South cooperation, regional integration etc.

So, Lula’s return to Planalto, that will bring a new kind of feeling to the world, that you have someone representing the peoples of the South, someone representing B, in the BRICS, someone who is not subordinate to the United States. With Petro in Colombia, with Lula in Brazil, added to the other progressive governments in the region, the political configuration is going to change significantly.

Twenty years ago, I came to São Paulo and was able to see Lula win his first presidential election, and I wrote in the largest newspaper in India: “Brazil is going to join the world, to build a better world”. In this elections I said to the Brazilian people: “Please, open the door in Brazil, again, and show us the way for India, and the rest of the world.” 

Vijay Prashad is an Indian historian and journalist. Prashad is the author of more than thirty books, including Washington Bullets, Red Star Over the Third World, The Darker Nations: A People’s History of the Third World and The Poorer Nations: A Possible History of the Global South. He is the Chief Correspondent for Globetrotter and a Columnist for Frontline (India). He is the Chief Editor of LeftWord Books (New Delhi). He has appeared in two films – Shadow World (2016) and Two Meetings (2017).