Israeli journalist Gideon Levy: There will be a central-right government led by Benny Gantz

Israeli journalist and columnist  Gideon Levy spoke to Harici. “Netanyahu cannot win right-wing voters unless he works some magic,” Levy said, predicting that a centre-right government will be formed under the leadership of Benny Gantz.

More than 18,000 Palestinians, including at least 7,700 children and 5,150 women, have been killed in Israel’s attacks on the Gaza Strip on 7 October in response to Hamas attacks.

Following the violent and bloody attacks against Palestinian civilians, the Israeli government started to lose support in the international community. However, the Netanyahu administration is facing a loss of confidence not only abroad but also at home. Opposition leader Yair Lapid said in a speech the previous day that Netanyahu is “a prime minister who has lost the trust of the majority of the people, the security and economic system, and has lost the trust of the world”. According to the latest opinion polls in the country, only 27 per cent of the people think that Netanyahu is suitable for the post of prime minister.

Gideon Levy, a writer for Israel’s Haaretz newspaper and a member of the newspaper’s editorial board, answered journalist Esra Karahindiba’s questions on Netanyahu’s Gaza plans, the Israeli elections and conflict resolution.

*The Biden administration wants the revitalized Palestinian Authority to govern Gaza after the war, but Netanyahu said they will not accept this. “After the war, Gaza should be demilitarized under Israel’s responsibility,” he said. What does that mean? Does the Netanyahu government have a realistic plan for Gaza? Will this dispute with the US turn into a showdown?

Both are very clear. Netanyahu has no plan in Gaza except for leaving the Israeli Defence Forces there, God know, until when. And the Americans will do nothing about it. We are going now for an election year. Biden will not go too far for pushing Netanyahu and I am afraid that IDF will stay in Gaza for long time which means reconquering Gaza even if there will be all kind of Palestinian puppets being nominated to run the education and so but finally in this case, Gaza will be occupied again.

*Do you believe that Netanyahu’s political life is over? Defense Minister Yoav Galant stands out as one of the names who could become prime minister after Netanyahu. Do you think the momentum of Israeli politics shifting to the right will continue or are you expecting a completely different surprise?

The momentum in public opinion is shifting to the right. But when it will come to elections, Netanyahu cannot win the right voters now unless he will find some magic, he cannot win them. Because the frustration and the anger towards him are overall. So, I guess there will be a central-right government led by mainly Benny Gantz. Galant cannot replace Netanyahu because he has no political basis. The moment when this war will be over is the moment where Galants career will be over. Because he has no political basis. Therefore, on the surface, it will be seen better because there will be a central government but the public opinion is close to more extreme right. It is really frightening.

*We know that in 1990’s there was a ground for peace deal between Israel and Palestine. But today, Israeli politics shifted too much to the right. How do you explain that shift? Is there no way back to that?

Right now, there is no way back to this because the left never suggests a serious programme for that. It was never planned. The left supports the continuing occupation like the right wing. But they want to do it in a softer way. This is not a plan, not an agenda and not a alternative. There was no alternative to the right-wing government. And there is no alternative still. And those days will never be back soon. No. And I also have doubts how much Izhak Rabin, in 1990’s, did enough for peace. He did something for peace but not enough. Shimon Peres was same. I used to work with him for 4 years.

*Is it possible to explain the ongoing attacks launched by Israel in Gaza in response to October 7 with Israel’s “right to self-defense”? Do the Israeli public support the army’s attacks in Gaza? The number of those killed approached 17 thousand. What do public opinion research say?

The public opinion totally supports it, unfortunately. The public opinion is not exposed to what is all happening in Gaza. TV’s, newspapers do not show anything about what is going on in Gaza. And Israelis couldn’t care less about it. Therefore, this government can continue this terrible war. Yes, Israel had a legitimate right to react on the terrible attack by Hamas on October 7^th. But there must be limits to this right to defend yourself. And Israel crossed those limits long time ago. Almost 20 thousand Palestinians killed among which 7 thousand are children, it crossed any limits of any just reaction.

*Can you confirm the allegations about Israel that they stage some footage for propaganda?

No. By all menas not.

*BBC, CNN and TRT World claimed some footage to be fake. For example, there were some bullets on a baby’s bed while Netanyahu was showing that to Elon Musk. But in the previous footage of the same baby’s bed, there were not any bullets. Do you think Israeli propaganda department can do that?

They can do it. Maybe they stage some details. I was in all those places two days after the massacre. I saw everything by eyes. No to start to put doubt on what happened is really destructive even for any effeort to help the Palestinians. Because there is no doubt that it was a terrible barbaric attack by Hamas. Even if some details were fabricated for propaganda or for Elon Musk, basically it was a barbaric attack. I saw the bodies. I saw the burned houses. I saw everything. Really, it was outrageous.

*You said that what is happening in Gaza is not shown in the media. Is Israel hiding what they are doing?

They are not hiding. Israelis do not want to see it. Nobody is hiding. People don’t want to bother. For years, Israelis are not exposed to the crimes of the occupation because Israelis do not want to see themselves on the mirror. And the TV channels and newspapers are all commercial. So, they want to please people. It’s only self-cencorship. Our newspaper can show much as it can. They don’t show it because people don’t want to see it. That’s the problem.

*Like Netanyahu, Galant does not have a positive statement about the two-state solution. Do you find the two-state solution realistic, considering Israel’s internal dynamics?

Unfortunately not. With 700 thousand Jewish settlers in the West Bank, there is no place for Palestinian state. We better realize it and start to speak about one democratic state between the river and the sea. That’s the only solution for a long run democracy and equality. Palestinians and Israelis forget that. I don’t see a room for a two-state solution because there are 700 thousand Jewish settlers.

*White House Spokesperson John Kirby said “Name another country that has done as much effort as the United States to relieve the pain and suffering of the people of Gaza?”. Can you comment on his statement?

The Americans? No. The Americans do only lip service for Palestinians. They are just speaking.

*How do you evaluate Turkey’s guarantor model for peace? Considering the ‘normalization’ steps taken before October 7th, are Israel-Turkey relations returning to the period after Mavi Marmara and ‘one minute’ incident?

Look, states like Türkiye, Qatar and Egypt and others can be very productive. But they don’t have a leverage on Israel. The only one who can really do it is the United States of America together with the European Union. And they will not do what is needed. They need to put pressure on Israel; pressure not just in words but pressure in actions to do something about changing the reality. And I am very afraid that we are getting back to the dates after Mavi Marmara unfortunately. And I think that we will also get out of those days because the relations between Israel and Türkiye are coming in ways basically. There are many things in common. Both are non-Arabic states in the Middle East. Both are democracies. Both are the only democracies in the Middle East. There ae no other real democracies in the Middle East. Türkiye has a very important role to play but it can never be the major player because it does not have a leverage on Israel. Only the United States can really do something but they don’t do anything.

*A certain segment of the Turkish people boycotts Israel, but macro trade continues. How do Erdoğan’s harsh statements resonate in Israel?

It’s on the news. Again, they label him as someone who hates Israel and someone who does not mention the crimes of Hamas. This is very round sided. I believe that he is very genuine. I heard him speaking at TRT World Forum. I see that he believes in what he says. The problem is he does not say one Word about Hamas’ actions. Because Hamas did not prepare anything for his people in Gaza. They are without shelters, without hospitals, without anything. Going into such a war without preparing anything is a crime.

*What about the statement of Guterres who said that the attack of Hamas did not happen in a vacuum?

Of course, it did not happen in a vacuum. What do you mean? It’s only Israeli propaganda can deny. Sure, it came in a context, a very strong context of besieged occupation. I totally support what Guterres said.

*Then, if someone does not blame Hamas, may it be because there are Israeli crimes at the same time?

We should speak about the Israelis’ crimes. The whole world speaks about Israeli crimes. But you cannot deny the fact that they came to those kibbutzs* and slaughtered people, children and old people and kidnapped hundreds of people, murdered hundreds of civilian people, and also raped as far as I understand even Hamas deny it. They did terrible things. This should be mentioned. It doesn’t have anything to do with Israel has right to do to what it does right now.

*Is there any tangible proof about rape claims?

Yes, more and more. There are testimonies. Look, when there was a massacre in Rwanda, nobody asked for proof. There are testimonies of women who saw it. There are also videos as far as I know. There is at least one video of a naked woman, totally bleeding, being taken in Gaza. There are proof and there will be more proof. I am sure.

*The footage released by Hamas shows the women hostages act very friendly towards Hamas militants and vice versa. Why do you think those people were giving so positive picture to cameras such as doing high-five and hugging Hamas militants?

I don’t know. I know that they said they went through tough times. And it’s not by chance that they are released in good position. I don’t know about the rest of the hostages. Maybe Hamas is very human in keeping the hostages. But on Saturday, the seventh of October, they did horrible things.

* kibbutz: The word comes from the Modern Hebrew qibbus, “a gathering.” A collective farm or settlement owned by its members in modern Israel; children are reared collectively.