Amir Mohammad Ramin, Afghanistan’s ambassador to Ankara, spoke to Harici. Assessing the economic, social, security and political problems in Afghanistan, Ambassador Ramin pointed to the role of the United States, which “came to the country without notice” and then left without any commitment to the economy, stability and security.
Ambassador Amir Mohammad Ramin answered our questions on the current situation in Afghanistan, relations with regional countries, security issues, recognition negotiations and foreign investment.
The US withdrew from Afghanistan, but left a big economic crisis behind and at the same time, hunger, poverty, epidemic, diseases, and many other problems remain. How do you think Afghanistan will recover?
Unfortunately, contrary to the expectations of the general public and the people in Afghanistan, the United States came to Afghanistan without any prior notice through, of course, a UN Security Council Resolution, but also left Afghanistan very abruptly without any sort of commitment for Afghanistan’s economic stability, future stability and development. In Afghanistan, the economic situation has died. People are in a difficult situation. And the reason is that we have the development situation in post-August 2021. The new de-facto authority has not been recognized. And there are no formal economic relations with Afghanistan right now. And in certain ways, Afghanistan remains under sanctions. For example, the SWIFT doesn’t work in Afghanistan. So for all these reasons, Afghanistan is going through a very difficult time. There’s no doubt. When it comes to the general public’s rights, human rights, it is a very dire situation. So what can be done that the situation in Afghanistan can get better? The best thing would be to look at this from two perspectives. One, domestic perspective. Domestic perspective, I think the de-facto authorities need to open up, engage with the public, try to create a rule-based system, try to create a constitution, try to define the rules, regulations and the rights of the people. Unless peoples are given their important rights and unless people are listened to, it will not be difficult to address the situation in Afghanistan. The issue of domestic legitimacy is very important. And that will only happen through a kind of mutual interaction and understanding between the people and these de-facto authorities. The second thing is that once domestic legitimacy is addressed, it comes to regional and international legitimacy. And that, I’m sure, will naturally come once the issue of Afghanistan internally happens. But given the dire situation in Afghanistan right now, it is very important that we do not forget the 35 million or 40 million people, we need to get to their humanitarian needs. And that’s why I continue to encourage all international actors to continue to address the humanitarian needs of people in Afghanistan. In this regard, Türkiye is doing well. I’m very grateful to the humanitarian assistance that Türkiye is sending to Afghanistan right now. More than 60 organizations are active in Afghanistan. Most of them are involved in two areas, humanitarian assistance as well as education, which both are very important. But in the short term, humanitarian assistance, in the long term, the issue of education are vital because education is a long-term investment for Afghanistan. So those are my views on how the situation could get better and go forward.
The US confiscated Afghanistan’s money, so to speak. It is obvious that Afghanistan needs this money very much right now. Will there be an international initiative regarding this? How do you evaluate this incident?
The continues to remain frozen. But my understanding is that there are ways to make sure that the money can get to the people. And their needs can be addressed. There has to be certain ways to be used. I myself am not directly involved in this, because I know that some of our diplomatic missions in New York and Geneva, they are following these developments. But I personally do not follow. But it is my wish that if there will be a way to make sure that the needs of the people are addressed to the money, it will be very good. But the long term and actual solution will be to make sure that the situation in Afghanistan gets better. It gets changed.
Let’s talk about the recognition efforts of the Taliban government. Iran, Russia, China and Pakistan, they have good relations with these neighbors. But it doesn’t seem that there will be as an official recognition of Taliban government. Do you have information, what is the calendar of Taliban government about recognition? Which clues do you get from other governments?
So, my understanding is that recognition is legitimacy, international legitimacy. So, unless the issue of domestic legitimacy is addressed, -and it’s in this 21st century, governments has to have the support and backing of the people- and there has to be some principles on how a government indicates that it has the backing of the people; you cannot simply say that I have the support of the people without any indicators. So, there has to be a way.
What is that way for Afghanistan?
So, the best thing would be to make sure that there is a framework in which there is some degree of public participation regarding the issue of domestic legitimacy. Unless that is not addressed, it will be difficult to see that international recognition will happen anytime soon. At the same time, I don’t think it will happen formally or officially anytime soon. Unles some very substantial issues are addressed such as the issue of the Afghanistan people’s rights, women’s rights and the issue of women’s access to education, women’s participation in the workforce, women’s participation in the society. Unless these issues are addressed, there will be, I think, no immediate solution to the issue of recognition, in my opinion. So, we don’t have a timeline for it.
Can you comment on Russia’s initiative that Russia announced they will invite Taliban government to Islamic summit in Kazan? What will that bring? What is Russia’s aim and what will that bring to Taliban government?
I think, it’s, what will happen is that it is sort of something that has happened over the past few years. There has been participation in various events, but it has not led to anything substantial or any major breakthroughs. For example, in 2022, in March, the Taliban delegation came and participated in the Antalya Diplomacy Forum. But nothing substantial came out of it. So, Kazan and the participation in the Islamic World Conference will only be a participation. I don’t think it will bring anything other than participation.
But what Russia wants to do is to put a stance for Taliban. Is it true?
So, in my understanding, Russia has security concerns about Afghanistan, specifically when it comes to Daesh, because recently there was a Daesh-Khorasan attack in Russia. So, for Russia, as well as other neighboring countries, such as, although Russia is not a neighboring country, but it is impacted by the situation. For Iran, for Pakistan, I think for them is to see how they can manage the situation to make sure that it does not get much more difficult or worse. For example, imagine if the security situation gets bad or worse in Afghanistan, these neighboring countries and regional countries, including Türkiye, will be the first to be impacted. And that’s why they maintain some degree of engagement to make sure that the situation is maintained. So, it will be a continuation of the status-quo. It will not be a major breakthrough.
What about the foreign investments into Afghanistan? China and Russia have several projects. There is a railway project between Russia and Afghanistan, which is also involving some Turkish companies. What do we know about these projects? Can you just enlighten us on that?
So, yes, the Chinese have made investments. Iran has made some investments in Afghanistan. Russia has made some investments. Turkish companies have invested in certain sectors in Afghanistan. My understanding is that there are about 11 different companies who have invested in Afghanistan, Turkish companies. Construction, but also hydropower, solar power… So, these are some of the sectors that they have invested. The Russians and Chinese are interested in mines. They have also invested in the oil. The Iranians have also had some investment in mines. The Russians would like to see what they can do. They don’t have any major investments yet.
Does Russia not have any major investments?
Any major investments, no, but right now the investment that they have made on the railway is one of the first ones. It is signed. And they will gradually start to construct. This will be the railway connectivity from Afghanistan to Iran, western Afghanistan, Herat province. And this could also potentially in the future connect Afghanistan to Türkiye. Because it could potentially come all the way to Türkiye.
How does it connect Russia and Afghanistan?
Right now, the other parts to connect all the way to Russia has not started. Because this is only the part that connects Afghanistan to Iran. In the future, once the situation is better, then of course this will go all the way to the two other countries that it will connect to Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. And then through Uzbekistan and Tajikistan it will potentially go all the way to both China and Russia. But that is not in an immediate plan.
What is the calendar?
Usually it’s quite difficult to talk about calendars in Afghanistan because the railway project that we are now discussing, this was discussed about 15 years ago. And because of the security incidents, it has always been delayed. Depending on the resources, investment and commitment by the companies and the security situation overall, I think, if the situation will be okay, the investment proceeds, the commitments for the investment proceeds, my understanding is that in the next five years there will be connectivity between Uzbekistan, Pakistan via Afghanistan, as well as way to Iran. And this will help to connect other countries such as Russia, China and India.
You have security problems regarding migrants in Pakistan? So, how do you evaluate this situation? And regarding the security of Afghanistan, is it actually very meaningful for the security of the whole region? This is what Ambassador Husrav Noziri, the Secretary General of Economic Cooperation Organization told me. He underlines that Afghanistan must be secure for the rest of the region to be secure. How will Afghanistan deal with these security problems?
So, some part of the security problem is in Afghanistan. Another part is also regional, especially in Pakistan. In Pakistan they have ungoverned areas, like in Waziristan, federally administrative areas. The Pakistani army is not in full control of those areas. And that’s why those areas are now inside the Pakistani soil and territory has turned into a safe haven for some of the groups, including the TTP as well as the Daesh. I think also there are some areas in neighboring Iran that’s also the same. On April 4th, we had a terrorist attack in Iran by Jaysh al-Adl, which is called the Troops of Justice. So, there are some areas that are not strictly controlled by the three countries in the border areas and regions of the three countries. My understanding is that it will require close cooperation by the countries to make sure that the ungoverned areas are reduced. And these ungoverned areas are also inside Pakistan, because this is a very mountainous area like Waziristan and other places. But if the security situation in Afghanistan improves, it will have impacts on neighboring countries. If the security situation in neighboring countries such as Pakistan, improves, it will have an impact on the security situation in Afghanistan.
You were appointed as Ambassador to Ankara by the previous government. Have you been working with Taliban government?
We have 35 million citizens in Afghanistan. We need to help them. We need to be responsible for them. We do consular works, work for economic development and humanitarian assistance. Because of this, we work with the Taliban. I work for Afghanistan. Turkish mission in Kabul also work for people in Afghanistan very actively. Türkiye’s consulate is in Mazar-i-Sherif also works actively.
Do you have any diplomats appointed by the Taliban government in the Embassy?
We have two diplomats. One of them works in the field of law. For example, he works with the prisons and the law officers regarding the legal issues of Afghan citizens. The second one works in the economic field. He is focused on investments and humanitarian assistance.
Decree of the first Turkish Ambassador appointed to Afghanistan, signed by Atatürk
How is the relation between Turkish government and Taliban government? How do you perceive a number of meetings held between two sides?
Türkiye works very pragmatically with Afghanistan. Because Türkiye sees the things like this: “I want to help them. I want to support them. At the same time, I want to improve the situation in Afghanistan. Because if the situation in Afghanistan improves, it will be a problem for Türkiye.” There is a migrant problem in Türkiye. If the situation in Afghanistan goes worse, it will be a serious problem for Türkiye. At the same time, the stability of the region is directly affected by Türkiye. Years ago, Türkiye’s economy was very good. There were different factors, of course, but main thing was that firstly, Syria, Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan were stable. Because Türkiye was directly affected positively by the stability of the region. But now there is an economic crisis because there is still a crisis in Afghanistan, there is a crisis in Pakistan, there is a crisis in Syria, there is a crisis in Iraq, there is a crisis in Libya. This have directly affected Türkiye.
Do you say Türkiye experiences economic difficulties mainly because of migrants?
Not only the migrants. There are many Turkish companies that work in Afghanistan. They got big projects from NATO, the US and Afghanistan. They got projects, which were equal to billions of dollars. Türkiye is directly affected in a good way by the good economic situation in Afghanistan previously. Because of this, Türkiye is working very positively, very pragmatically in this region. Because of this, some people in Türkiye say, -and this message comes from our citizens sometimes – Türkiye needs to stop these relations. I think this is not very logical and at the same time it is of no use. Because it can cause the situation get worse. Therefore, I think Türkiye’s presence in Afghanistan is very important. Afghanistan can change the situation with diplomatic, political, and assistance coming from Türkiye. Türkiye is doing very good things in this region.
