South African Foreign Minister Naledi Pandor told Harici: “It is surprising that the West criticises our decision to go to the International Court of Justice against Israel, because they often call on us to respect international institutions…”
On 26 January, an interim decision was announced in the genocide case brought by the Republic of South Africa against Israel at the International Court of Justice (ICJ). In the judgment, the ICJ found that Israel’s actions in Gaza constituted genocide and decided to take interim measures on this basis. It ruled that Israel was obliged to take all measures to prevent acts of genocide in Gaza.
Responding to our questions, Dr Naledi Pandor, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of South Africa, explained the process of the case, the challenges they faced and their objectives. Pandor said that if you are not European, you are not seen as fully human. I think this is the real problem that the world needs to solve.
First of all, did you start to face any difficulties, any troubles by the West, especially from the US side after your initiative?
Well actually, as you know, some countries in the West started to criticize the step of going to the International Court of Justice. We found this very surprising. Because they often call on us to respect international institutions. So, we were acting on the basis of international resisting, international law and found the comments that we were rather dismissive of South Africa’s attempt to approach the International Court of Justice. Very very surprising…
Now there is a possibility that Israeli forces may go for an operation towards Rafah border. So, what does the court says about this? Do we have any tangible results?
What we’ve heard Israel speaking of an attack on Rafah where we know many Palestinians sought refuge, we approached the ICJ in terms of one of the closes of the convention to say that we’ve seen that the provisional measures that the court had ordered have not been acted upon but in addition, there is a further threat to people in Rafah. Should such an attack happen it will just extend the level of outrage and harm that Palestinians have experienced. The court, then, issued a letter indicating that the provisional measures apply to Gaza as well as to Rafah. And thus, any attack would be constituted as providing evidence that would be incorporated in the case that we are prosecuting on genocide.
Just a few days ago, another human rights violation has been witnessed unfortunately. 112 Gazans who were just waiting for humanitarian aid were killed by Israeli forces. Are you thinking of bringing this unfortunate incident as an evidence to your file?
Well, certainly it must be part of the evidence. This is the most disgraceful act. Israel has caused people in Palestine to starve in addition to bombings of hospitals and other public institutions. They deny them food, water and fuel. And food has been brought to a system, they are shocked. When are they going to get that food? They are starving people. So, this is the most horrifying of all the actions that had been taken against the people of Palestine. I believe the world is horrified at this. What we would like to see is greater effort to ensure consistent delivery of humanitarian aid. We have called for that all the time. This is why we are calling for a ceasefire. And we are glad that the bigger friends of Israel are talking more and more about ensuring that humanitarian aid is delivered. And we think that not dropping from the air and then making people scramble for it. This is dehumanizing.
This what the US has done recently.
While helping people to get food, you know, one to be scrambling… I think we need to think of people emphatic, of humanity. What I believe the world should try to do is to protect the trucks that are carrying aid and to ensure that they can get to the areas where the aid is needed.
During all these are happening, the United Nations and it’s affiliated institutions were widely criticized for not being effective. I guess, you would agree with that. Demands for reform in the UN have been voiced for a long time. What is your take on this?
Well, indeed, we support the call for the reform of the UN. But we believe that the UN should continue to exist. For some, the United Nations is regarded as an obstacle. For many people in Palestine and occupation, the United Nations has been the only organization that is able to provide aid and support. So, I wouldn’t like to see the UN destroyed. Many people do try to make life very difficult for the UN but we believe it’s an important multi-lateral body. And our duty as citizens of the world is to support the United Nations to function in the interest of the people.
How do you evaluate the fact that the West which imposed sanctions on Russia after the Ukraine intervention, even applied sanctions on issues concerning internal affairs of non-western countries, did not take any sanctions which are it’s the most important weapon against Israel’s massacres?
Well, to be fair recently America has announced some sanctions against the individuals who made very inflammatory genocidal statements against Palestinian people. But I do think that more action can be taken. I believe that there should have been an approach to the International Criminal Court. But other countries those which have approached the ICC on Russia, should have done the similar approach on Israel because their acts are awful. And the harm has been visited upon Palestinians is the most catastrophic and tragic harm ever. So, we do believe that there should be greater action. I have said before. That part of the negative how we view each other is that if you are not European, you are not regarded as fully human. And I think this is the real problem that the world has to address. We have to look at ourselves in the mirror and ask the question whether we treat all equally.
Now African people are addressing that question actually. Let’s talk about the strong trends against neocolonialism. Yes, it’s at the same time causing some coup-detats. France is excluded from the region. On the other hand African countries are diversifying their relations from traditional colonial powers to Asia. What do you think of the rise of the Global South and cooperation fields with African states?
I wish to begin with saying South Africa does not support coups. We don’t support unconstitutional changes. We regard them as wrong. They lead to create harm and lack of freedom. We believe strongly in democracy. However, we know that Africa has been exploited for its rich mineral resources for many many years. And we do wish as the South to see it a different form of partnership between ourselves and different regions of the world. So, we are looking for international cooperation that is directed at development rather than exploitation. This is very very important for us. The neo-colonial relationship has been about the exploitation and very inadequate development on the ground in our countries. We want to turn that around and have a different form of outcome in our countries.
Lastly, you are welcome to Antalya Diplomacy Forum. ADF invited a great number of African countries. They were represented at very high level and hosted by the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Türkiye. Can you comment on Türkiye’s growing influence in Africa. How do you take that?
Well, we appreciate the efforts of President Erdoğan. I think he is very serious about building a strong relationship with the African continent. Increasing trade and economic partnership is critical for us. So, we welcome the fact that Türkiye has got a very progressive “Africa partnership policy.” And we would like to see this for the benefit of Türkiye as well as various African countries.
In South Africa, you have a specific partnership with Türkiye. Right?
Indeed, we have a development cooperation. And Turkish companies are assisting in our efforts to increase the availability of electricity for our economy and broader public in South Africa. And we are growing on the power that Türkiye has in its economy of entrepreneurship, especially small and medium sized business development. And we hope that the people of South Africa will learn from Türkiye and then will see more and more small and medium sized businesses in our country.
